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Question
Tuesday, August 29, 2017 6:32 AM
I have a Windows Workgroup. Since upgrading to the Creator update Net View no longer lists any computers but the computer it's being run on. I use this command to run reports against the machines. I understand that this is a known issue:
It sounds like it's already being discussed here but the title is mislabeled:
A Windows PC with the Creator update can only return a list of computers if it's the Master Browser, otherwise it just gets itself.
This cascades into other issues
An NBTStat -a <computername> doesn't work and of course many other other commands wont work.
Given that this has happened before in a previous Windows 10 update, it's quite unacceptable. It's quite clear the pre-release testing is inadequate. If 100,000 system administrators around the world waste one day on this and that's a million wasted hours, I believe that's a conservative estimate.
Can someone from Microsoft please weigh in and advise us what is being done to resolve this bug?
All replies (49)
Wednesday, August 30, 2017 10:07 AM | 1 vote
Hi,
As I understand it, the issue you are experiencing is: After Creator Update, Windows 10 cannot use "net view" to list other computers but itself. And only Master Browser server can list all computers.
1.In “Network and Sharing Center”, click “Change Advanced sharing settings”, turn on “network discovery”
2.In “Network and Sharing Center”, click “Change Adapter Settings”, go to NIC Properties\IPv4 Properties\Advenced\Wins tab, select “Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP”
3.In Services console, ensure “Computer Browser” and “Workstation” services are running
4.Run “regedit” to open Registry Editor, navigate to “\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services \Browser\Parameters”, ensure the “MaintainServerList” is set to Yes or Auto
5.In the same location of registry, ensure that at least one computer in each subnet, has the “IsDomainMaster” REG_SZ key set as True.
After that, please wait for about 12 minutes and try “net view” again on these Windows 10 computers.
Also, please open the Network in Explorer, and check if computers will be listed in Network.
Hope it will be helpful to you
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Thursday, August 31, 2017 8:42 AM
Hi Carl
I have checked all the things you have suggested and more. The fact is, when I apply number 5 of your suggestions on the 1703 and boot the machines ensuring it is the master browser, all other computers in the workgroup are no longer able to use "Net View", they just get the message "The service has not been started". I verify the 1703 is the master browser in this case by running the command "nbtstat -a 1703ComputerName", which show it having the __MSBROWSE__ value, no other machines have this returned running the same command against them. The only machine that can use "net View" is the 1703 master browser.
If I set any other PC to be the master browser, windows version irrelevant other than not 1703, then all the computers can run "Net View" and return the list of computers (hence a bunch of other network commands work). All except the 1703 machine, it can only see itself when the "Net View" command is run. Also, if it is not the master browser it gets a Warning in the System event log:
Event ID: 8021
Source: Browser
Message: The browser service was unable to retrieve a list of servers from the browser master \CurrentMasterPC on the network \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{NicID}
Browser master: \CurrentMasterPC
Network: \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{NicID}
This event may be caused by a temporary loss of network connectivity. If this message appears again, verify that the server is still connected to the network. The return code is in the Data text box.
The computer only got upgraded to 1703 5 days ago, the problem was apparent the following day when I tried to use "Net View". There are other people out there who have replicated the problem in their labs, isolating it down to any freshly built or upgrade 1703 Windows 10. There are two 1703 computers on the network, this one built with Windows 10 and updated to 1703, the other upgraded from Windows 7 and updated to 1703, both exhibit the same behaviour. This guy did this, another work around:
https://www.tenforums.com/network-sharing/85283-1703-master-browser-smb-broke-again.html
What's worse is 1511 had the same bug, this url points to a posting in Dec 2015 describing exactly the same problem.
https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=45&topicid=185804
It was quietly fixed with a patch in the new year. I'm astounded it's been allowed to happen again, no other version of windows has broken it even once with one of it's updates. What also concerns me is that the issue was raised some 5 months ago, straight afters Creators 1703 came out. See this posting on the issue on the MS Partners website.
and I believe most of the entries in this post are about this problem.
Yet it would appear nothing has been done about it at all. The master browser not working is a major problem for systems administrators of workgroups, it means they cannot use a number of network tools that have been available for more than a decade in their efforts to track issues.
Is there some way to tell if this broken core feature is being fixed?
Thursday, September 7, 2017 5:01 AM
Hi Carl, I see you are very busy on here, good work. Did you have a chance to review the information I supplied? How can I find out if Microsoft are dealing with this issue?
Thursday, September 7, 2017 9:58 AM
Hi,
I'm sorry for the late reply and hank you for your update.
whether or not opening Network in Explorer can see network computers.
Besides, please follow the link below to check common causes:
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Friday, September 8, 2017 12:35 AM | 2 votes
Thanks Carl
Browsing the network using file explorer is dependant on which machine is the master browser and whether or not it has 1703 on it. Drives can still be mapped regardless. It is as expected given the master browser isn't working. It's clear from your response that you neither acknowledge the issue with the master browser in 1703 or have tested the issue using workgroup mswindows pcs. The issue is very easy to reproduce if you can set a few pcs up as a workgroup, one or two with 1703 installed.
I think what is happening is that most people find a work around that suits them and walk away from the issue as it only impacts network admins and it seems to be too hard to get Microsoft to do something about it. In many situations only one user, the network admin, is going to need to "net view". This can be done by ensuring that user's pc is and stays the master browser by setting the IsDomainMaster value in the registry. Although you note this as something to check at step 5 above this registry hack is not something you should need to do in a network where master browser is working correctly. Others have set up a non-Microsoft device on the network as the master browser and all machines can "net view" thanks to this. At the end of the day, these are just workarounds and network admins around the world look forward to Microsoft fixing it.
Kind Regards
Wednesday, September 13, 2017 1:38 AM
Hi,
Thank you for your update.
I will forward this information to the appropriate department through our internal channel. Both the Microsoft Product Team and Development Team take into consideration all suggestions and feedback for future releases.
Also you could try the built-in "Feedback" tool to submit the issue on your side.
Best regards,
Carl
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Thursday, September 14, 2017 4:08 AM
I think we just have to get used to using an earlier version of Windows (or a non-Windows machine) as the master browser in a SMB at samba network. The computer browser service doesn't work in 1703 and in the Insider preview versions it is not even there, so I don't expect to see it in any future versions of Windows.
Bill
Thursday, September 14, 2017 7:05 AM | 1 vote
Thanks Bill
So you're saying Microsoft have removed functionality for workgroups that's been there for the best part of 20 years and provided no means for small businesses all over the world to perform the tasks. At least they should recognise the issues this will cause and provide customers with information rather than leave them floundering around trying to figure out what has happened and how they can resolve it for their workgroup. So clever, what a way to endear their customers, the arrogance is phenomenal. I hate to think of the millions of hours that have been wasted by network admins all over the world working around this issue.
This reminds me of when Microsoft removed Windows Media Centre from Windows and left 5 million users worldwide without their tv recording functionality if they moved to Windows 10. They left Windows Media Player in Windows so you could still play the files in the libraries you had spent years collecting but the subtitles were gone! About 9% of people are hearing impaired so that affected about 450,000 hearing impaired people. Not to mention the inconvenience for 5 million people of trying to get other software to perform the same task in Windows 10!
No wonder so many people rue the day they moved to Windows 10.
Thursday, September 14, 2017 7:28 AM
That's true, but you can't have backwards compatibility for ever. This is certainly not the first be "deprecated" as they say, and probably won't be the last.
There are no supported Windows operating systems which need the computer browser service now that XP is out of support. Everything from Vista on can use the newer file sharing systems which are IPv6 compatible.
Bill
Thursday, September 14, 2017 7:40 AM
Hi Bill, thanks for your reply
I do understand the need to be IPv6 compatible, but I'm not sure exactly what you mean by backward compatibility. Are you saying there is another means to browse the network in a workgroup now? What current Microsoft tool returns the list of computers in a workgroup from the command line (replaces the functionality of "net view")?
Regards
Thursday, September 14, 2017 10:22 AM
It all works fine, but Windows 10 is no longer compatible with it.
The system had a pretty good run. It outlasted two underlying transport protocols, NetBIOS and NetBEUI, and its current transport, NetBIOS over TCP/IP only works on IPv4. It is not supported on IPv6. It also led to the development of the third party SAMBA system which still works.
The system will not die yet, but Windows 10 will not be a part of it.
Bill
Friday, September 15, 2017 6:54 PM | 7 votes
Thanks Bill
I dug a bit deeper and now I understand what's happened.
SMB 1.0 is being discontinued or "deprecated". Totally reasonable, improves security.
The Computer Browser service is dependant on SMB 1.0, Microsoft have decided to remove the service rather than upgrade Computer Browser so the functionality remains. The result being Network Neighbourhood browsing is gone for Workgroups and users cannot so easily ascertain which PCs are available in the Workgroup.
This from Microsoft:
Particularly the sentence "For home and small business users who use Network Neighborhood to locate Windows computers, you shoud map drives to the computers so that you no longer have to browse for them." Not even spell checked and so blasé. Yes folks, after more than 20 years of being able to browse your workgroup, since WFW 3.11 I believe, they are taking the ability to browse workgroups away. This is a crying shame for anyone who administers small business Workgroups. Network Neighbourhood is an absolute necessity for the person looking after things. It allows them to quickly ascertain which machines are available and which are not.
I use PowerShell to run reporting scripts across every active machine in the workgroup, it was easy to do that before, a simple "net view" returned all the info required to make the CimInstance calls to the available computers. I still haven't worked out what I'm going to do, perhaps I'll maintain a list of computer names and look for a file on each pc, something like that, of course it will slow down the scripts significantly.
I think it's shameful the way Microsoft have done this. I see new posts almost daily that are issues relating to this, yet the Microsoft support people appear to not be aware of the reason for the problem the person is having.
There are millions of Workgroup users around the world and it's clear many are being impacted in one way or another already. A lot of them are setting the 1703 machine of choice as the Master Browser at the moment as this will get Computer Browser going on that machine, not realising that the next time their PC gets updated they will be in the same boat again, unable to browse the network.
Not bothering to upgrade the Computer Browser service fits right in with Microsoft's desire to get people using the cloud or investing in a server so they have AD. The cost to us in man hours and new technology is astronomic and there are still millions of people worldwide without reliable enough internet to move their data to the cloud.
So the question now is, does anyone know of an available tool to allow us to browse the network without the Computer Browser service? Is anyone out there prepared to create a new Computer Browser service?
Sunday, September 17, 2017 9:47 AM
Hi
Have noticed a round of smaller Win 10 updates yesterday and all my network seems to show up on explorer although there not no appear to be a Master Browser anywhere. Diskstation & an old mybooklive without mapping.
8 PC's all Win 10 creator with just one older win 8.1.
My problem was I have a Linksys ea6900 router acting as a AP and if any hint of the network not working i.e. the the creator update, it would take over as MB, always. Even the 8.1 PC was ignored. Before this a Win 10 PC would always be MB. Cannot rename workgroup. My main router Archer vr600 would briefly take over & do a good job but the Linksys would always grab it back. The Linksys however was rubbish at being the MB so after a short while PC's would stop showing up and all sorts of issues.
So it was not just the case of mapping the NAS etc but most the PC's would dissappear from time to time.
As I say maybe teh update has done some clever stuff & I can see all the network but there seems to be no MB, which is weird to see the NAS without a MB. perhaps after some more time it will all go t**s up again.
Monday, September 18, 2017 7:01 AM
I think that is just a coincidence. There was nothing in the latest updates (August or September) which would affect computer browsing.
How can you tell what is the master browser? I don't know of any tool on Windows 8.1/10 which could tell you.
If your Windows 10 machines are running version 1703 you should disable the computer browser service on all of them. AS NoneAndOne stated, you will have problems if any one of them becomes the master browser. Windows 8.1 should be fine.
Machines disappearing from the browse list is a symptom of an unstable situation, probably caused by browser elections.
The main problem with the browser software is that it is very old. It has been around since at least Windows 3.1wfw(windows for workgroups from 1992) and was designed to run on equipment which no longer exists (10baseT Ethernet which used LAN broadcasts and hubs). Emulating that on a 1G Ethernet switched network is difficult (and inefficient) but no one has come up with anything to replace it. Obviously no one at Microsoft or amongst the beta testers has much interest in it, as two versions of Windows have been released with non-working browser software (and I don't expect any change in version 1709). It has not been a major issue at Microsoft since Windows 2000 when Active Directory switched to DNS instead of NetBIOS names. It was still a big issue in Windows NT (when AD depended on it), and most of the documentation comes from that era.
Bill
Monday, September 18, 2017 9:42 AM
Hi,
I am sure you are right about it being a coincidence, wishful thinking.
However it is the first time my network has behaved like this & worked OK.
For some years I have been using
scottiestech LAN Scanner Tool
Always been 100% reliable, perhaps now reporting incorrectly.
I have had MB disabled on all Win 10 PC's since the update & only the win 8.1 enabled but it never seems to take control.
It is either of my routers that take MB and annoying the AP Linksys ea6900 (Even in just Bridge mode) always wins and once it does I can't usually see all other PC's let alone my NAS's.
My modem/router TP-Link VR600 has sometimes held onto MB for 24 hours or so and seems to work well but even without restarts etc the Linksys will take MB again. before creator update 99% of time it was one or another Win 10 PC that was MB & not the routers.
Some years ago i think MB went flacky and I changed every PC, NAS from WORKGROUP just so this bloody Linksys would not take over but just put them all back in hope the VR600 (Which can also only be WORKGROUP) would do the job. Why router manufacturers simply don't make it easy to change WG's and also stop them being possible MB. I know they probably need to allow access to USB drive etc. but still!
I may end up binning the Linksys but It is a really good AP, wifi range and so reliable in every other way.
Tuesday, September 19, 2017 2:18 AM
Yes, Scottie's LANscanner is reliable.
It is hard to defeat a device which is designed to force itself to be the master browser if you can't turn it off somewhere in its config. The system was designed to give certain devices, like servers, priority and that is easy to fake.
Bill
Wednesday, September 20, 2017 2:37 AM
Hi Grant
To resolve the Master Browser I ran the command NBTStat -a ComputerName, the one that is the Master Browser is the only one with the value __MSBROWSE__. I ran the command from a Windows 7 Pro pc, I haven't checked if this command works on Windows 10 and I have no Windows 8.1 PCs. I saw no benefit to getting Windows 8 and have not realised any benefits from having Windows 10. There is little changed in the underlying security between Windows 7 and 10, at this stage from what I've seen any security improvements can be reproduced in Windows 7 by changing settings.
The issue is completely reproducible by setting which PC is the Master Browser and has been there since Creators was released from what I can tell.
Do you know if Scotties LAN Scanner is reliant on older protocols being removed to produce it's results? All that really concerns me is having the ability to browse Workgroup resources easily. I can believe it is "not a major issue at Microsoft", they have the luxury of being in AD domains and browsing network resources is no issue.
Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:45 AM
The method Scottie uses is described in the Help file included in the download. It uses net view /domain to discover what workgroups are running then uses other methods to determine the master browser for each workgroup. He has tried to make this as machine and protocol independent as possible.
I have my network configured so that the Windows 8.1 and 10 machines can browse through the Network display using network discovery and IPv6 (SMB 1.0 and NetBIOS over TCP/IP disabled) and the remaining WinXP and Win7 machines use the browser service and SMB 1.0. (I don't have a need for NAS connectivity). Interestingly the Windows 7 machine can see all machines from its Network command. I suppose because Win7 was the first OS to use the new system and needed to be able to see existing XP and earlier machines using the old system as well as the new. No idea how it merges the two lists - Windows 8.1 doesn't seem to be able to.
Bill
Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:51 AM
I think we just have to get used to using an earlier version of Windows (or a non-Windows machine) as the master browser in a SMB at samba network. The computer browser service doesn't work in 1703 and in the Insider preview versions it is not even there, so I don't expect to see it in any future versions of Windows.
Bill
The lack of the computer browser service in the Insider builds was of course because SMB 1.0 is disabled by default (as NoneandOne has pointed out). It is not available in version 1703 either if you disable SMB 1.0 .
Bill
Thursday, September 21, 2017 1:06 AM | 5 votes
The "lack of" a Computer Browser service is not because SMB v1.0 was deprecated, it is because Microsoft chose not to upgrade the Computer Browser service when deprecating SMB v1.0. Microsoft decided we don't need Computer Browsing anymore and can work around not having it. There is no reason why one could not have been supplied that provides the same functionality yet utilises the more secure protocols available now.
I liked your comment about being able to browse all computers from a Windows 7 machine, it means of course that the Windows 7 security architecture is compatible with Windows 10. For this reason alone I expect to be able to browse to a Windows 7 PC from Windows 10. Fascinating that it's forward compatible but not backward compatible, almost unbelievable!
I haven't realised any benefit from having Windows 10, in fact the opposite. Windows 10 relies heavily on a solid internet connection, using lot's of bandwidth, is full of bloatware that I have no use for, wastes bandwidth and is difficult to remove. Settings are overwritten every time there is a major update, every 6 months we're going to need to confirm our existing choices for default apps, so confusing for my customers. Administration has been dumbed down to the Settings app which can't even be multi tasked like Control Panel. I have no need for DirectX 12 and I'm certainly not interested in using any of the apps being thrust at me by Microsoft. My existing suite of apps do everything I require. Personally I would have been prepared to pay more for a Windows 10 that doesn't have the Microsoft store or any pre installed apps and provided some realisable benefits over Windows 7.
My small business customers have been experiencing similar to me. I wish I could say I'm happy taking money from them to fix all the Windows 10 hassles but I'm not. I can't defend Microsoft anymore and be taken seriously. I am considering rolling back to Windows 7 in some cases and migration to web based or open source apps like Open Office. I will develop a non-Windows build for some customers who's needs are mainly web - cloud based and don't require any Windows apps. For my customers sake I should have already done this to reduce their costs, there are certainly mature enough operating systems out there but to this point I have been a Microsoft shop.
Fortunately I still have a Windows 7 image of this computer. Windows 7 is still as secure as 10 if well configured. I gave Windows 10 a good go for a year, now I am inches away from restoring my Windows 7 image. The only thing stopping me is the effort but I am now thinking it will be less effort to revert than to continue forward. If I run Windows 7 I wont see my Start menu config all messed up anymore and there will be no more large icons flashing at me "Pick Me! Pick Me!" that I didn't put there. This should give me trouble free computing for a few more years at least. At that stage I can move to a non Windows OS. It will take a little more effort to build the PC but I can have all the functionality I require without the intrusions. A small VM should take care of any Windows apps I absolutely must have.
Thursday, September 21, 2017 12:22 PM
I use PowerShell to run reporting scripts across every active machine in the workgroup, it was easy to do that before, a simple "net view" returned all the info required to make the CimInstance calls to the available computers. I still haven't worked out what I'm going to do,
Instead, I would wonder if there is not something already in PowerShell which could be exploited to generate such lists.
E.g. here is (how to get) a list of functions that remain in PowerShell which seem to be related to your needs. The problem is imagining what we could try to do with such primitives in order to construct a replacement for the higher level command that you are used to using. Maybe someone will make a GUI that really simplifies the requirement and improves the usability.
Get-Help Get-*SMB* | sort Name
Robert Aldwinckle
Tuesday, October 3, 2017 7:12 PM | 1 vote
Try this:
- Run "tasklist /svc"
In the output, you should see something like this: Browser and LanmanServer running in their own svchost processes. *Sample output below is abbreviated for illustration purposes. You will see a longer list.
Image Name PID Services
========================= ======== ==============
svchost.exe 2772 LanmanServer
svchost.exe 2868 Browser
- Run "sc config browser type=share"
This will reconfigure the Browser service to run in a shared svchost with LanmanServer like in previous versions of Windows.
3. Run "net stop browser" and "net start browser" to restart the service.
4. Run "tasklist /svc"
In the output, you should see something like this: Browser and LanmanServer running in a shared svchost process. *Sample output below is abbreviated for illustration purposes. You will see a longer list.
Image Name PID Services
========================= ======== ==============
svchost.exe 2772 Browser, LanmanServer
5. Now try all of the commands you used before, like net view.
Wednesday, October 4, 2017 6:19 AM
That sounds like a good idea, but they still start separately for me. Is there some trick to make them start together, like changing the startup type of the services?
Bill
Wednesday, October 4, 2017 4:20 PM
I am trying this process in PowerShell. I see the two listings for Browser and LanmanServer, independent of each other, with their svchost.exe. When I run "sc config browser type=share", it give me an error (W10 machine) "A positional parameter cannot be found that accepts argument 'type=share'." Since that happens in step 2, none of the following steps are valid.
Wednesday, October 4, 2017 5:31 PM
I am trying this process in PowerShell. I see the two listings for Browser and LanmanServer, independent of each other, with their svchost.exe. When I run "sc config browser type=share", it give me an error (W10 machine) "A positional parameter cannot be found that accepts argument 'type=share'." Since that happens in step 2, none of the following steps are valid.
I looked at the documentation for sc config, it says you need a space e.g. type= share
Does this make it work for you?
Wednesday, October 4, 2017 6:13 PM
I am trying this process in PowerShell.
In PowerShell you can use its command line escape --% E.g. type that after the program name but before its syntax starts.
Robert Aldwinckle
Wednesday, October 4, 2017 11:32 PM
I provided these steps from someone else who claimed this worked for them. I should have known better to try it myself first before posting it. I will try it on a machine and see if I can work it out. Another thought, if you want to experiment, is run
"sc config browser type= share && sc config lanmanserver type= share"
Then restart the computer instead of trying to restart the services.
Powershell shouldn't be required, just an administrative cmd prompt.
Thursday, October 5, 2017 2:40 AM
Thanks Chris. The type=share worked fine from a command prompt (gave a success reply) but the browser and server services still ran in their own svchost. I will try your other suggestion.
Bill
Thursday, October 5, 2017 8:23 PM
I could not get the sc config command (or sc.exe in Powershell) to achieve the result I desired, so I resorted to two registry edits and a reboot. See new steps below.
Try this:
- Run "tasklist /svc"
In the output, you should see something like this: Browser and LanmanServer running in their own svchost processes. *Sample output below is abbreviated for illustration purposes. You will see a longer list.
Image Name PID Services
========================= ======== ==============
svchost.exe 2772 LanmanServer
svchost.exe 2868 Browser
- Run these two commands to add the SvcHostSplitDisable registry value set to 1.
REG ADD HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Browser /v SvcHostSplitDisable /t REG_DWORD /d 1 /f
REG ADD HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\LanmanServer /v SvcHostSplitDisable /t REG_DWORD /d 1 /f
This will reconfigure the Browser service to run in a shared svchost with LanmanServer like in previous versions of Windows.
3. Reboot the computer
4. Run "net start browser" and then "tasklist /svc"
In the output, you should see something like this: Browser and LanmanServer running in a shared svchost process. *Sample output below is abbreviated for illustration purposes. You will see a longer list.
Image Name PID Services
========================= ======== ==============
svchost.exe 2772 Browser, LanmanServer
5. Now try all of the commands you used before, like net view.
Thursday, October 5, 2017 8:28 PM | 1 vote
I found you have to use sc**.exe** config browser type= share to avoid the error in Powershell. However, it still did not achieve the desired result of getting browser and lanmanserver in the same svchost. See my post below about editing the registry to accomplish this.
Thursday, October 5, 2017 8:33 PM
I found you have to use sc**.exe** config browser type= share to avoid the error in Powershell.
Sorry. I could have mentioned that too. sc is an alias in PowerShell
PS>Get-Alias sc | ft -HideTableHeaders
Alias sc -> Set-Content
Robert Aldwinckle
Friday, October 6, 2017 2:52 AM
Thanks Chris. That looks very promising.
Bill
Sunday, November 12, 2017 11:36 PM
Before you waste your time with a lot of firewall/registry/driver/nic config hacks I'll send you a link with many of the fixes that don't fix the master browser issue with Windows 1703 and 1709. Best to roll back to a previous version of windows and disable windows updates. I'd rather have a working browser than an improved paint program I don't need. https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/e105ef02-962e-437f-aaf3-ad3b533571fb/master-browser-not-working-for-non-windows-devices-in-build-1709-and-1703?forum=win10itpronetworking
Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:57 AM
You don't even have to have different operating systems for it to be erratic. All mine are windows 10 same version.
It is just that Microsoft has decided they don't want to bother with it, and that is that.
If Linux could ever get its act together, there would be no future for Windows. No hope of that with 10,000 techs creating trivial variations of the same thing, with the user even farther left behind than in Windows.
Sunday, December 17, 2017 12:47 AM
To be fair, the demise of SMB 1.0 and the computer browser service is long overdue. Its limitations and vulnerabilities have been known for a long time and are not surprising, given its history. It was originally designed (nearly thirty years ago) for closed proprietary networks. Its heyday was the NT era, now 20 years gone. It has no place in an inter-connected world.
Bill
Monday, January 8, 2018 10:56 AM | 1 vote
On this article is explained exactly which changes has been introduced and why the list of computers is not displaying anymore, at the end of the article there's a workaround to circumvent this change.
I hope it helps!
Regards
Matteo
Saturday, March 24, 2018 4:58 PM | 1 vote
AGAIN - TO BE CLEAR - the issue is not SMB - let's try it again the issue is not SMB - SMB 1.0, 2.0, 3.0... 17.8876 is NOT the issue - let's hear it from the crowd, let's all say it together SMB versions is NOT THE ISSUE.
The issue is what device acts as the MASTER BROWSER. I don't know how many time someone who doesn't take 5 seconds to read the post is going to say - oh turn on SMB 1.0 or the problem is your device doesn't handle the new version of SMB. It doesn't matter if SMB 1.0 is secure or not secure - it isn't the problem - the issue is the master browser - use SMB 52.0 when it comes out - it won't fix the issue - again the issue is the master browser not an old or new version of SMB.
I''ll say it again the issue is the MASTER BROWSER. MAS - TER.... BROWS... ER Master Browser. Try it again MASTER BROWSER.
If you let a netgear box capable of being the master browser be the MASTER BROWSER, than your WIndows 10 CU and newer shares work fine. If you let a Windows 7 box be the master browser than your Windows 10 UC box or newer will share fine. If you run a VM with an older version of windows and make it the master browser, than the shares on the newer Windows 10 box work fine - THI IS NOT AN SMB issue - otherwise the shares COULD NOT WORK. The ISSUE is the MASTER BROWSER. MAS-TER BROWS-ER. Say it - SAY IT!
I'm hoping that helps you understand the source of the issue - if you've forgotten it is the master browser. I swear I'll raise the spirit of Sam Kinison to scream it in your ear if you haven't gotten it by now.
I wish I was part of the partner program so I could slap Tommy around until he actually tried the issue on a non- windows device - tell me no one at MS owns a non-windows device
Friday, April 13, 2018 1:13 AM
After well over a year of futile searching for a solution, your link provided the correct, albeit unpleasant, truth about what has been going on. While I am unhappy with Microsoft's action, I am grateful to finally have an answer to this vexing question. Thank you!
Friday, April 13, 2018 7:31 PM
Browser and lanman is gone in Windows 10 v1709.
So your workaround doesn't work (in fact it gives errors)
Saturday, May 12, 2018 7:20 PM
Hi guys,
I don't know if my advice will help. But I have my small LAN from 5 PC. 3 are Windows 10 Pro, one is Windows 10 Home and lastone is just for testing. After April Update starts problem with local network. I did't see another PC in local area and if I saw, was problem to connect to this PC. After one milion reinstall Windows and lots experiments I found out that service Function Discovery Resource Publication is turned off. After turn on, I can see immediately all PC in local area. But what is funny, if I use nbtstat -n or nbtstat -A name of computer I see Master browser is always on PC with Windows 10 Home. If I started my all PCs exclude this with Windows 10 Home, I have no Master Browser in the LAN, but LAN workin right. If I start PC with Windows 10 Home, Master Browser is there. But sometimes it's imposible connect to shared folder on this PC with Home. I just PING this pc and problem gone, I can connect :-D
on PCs with Windows 10 Pro i don't have this thread in registry.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Browser\Parameters \MaintainServerListonly on PC with Master Browser. I don't know why.
All my IP adress I set on modem to static. And that service I set to automatic, but with delay, because sometimes was this service not turned on correctly. I hope I little hepl to us and sorry for my simple English :-D
Friday, May 25, 2018 2:05 PM | 1 vote
i only signed up on this site to thank you.my debian server was available even on my android phone but not in my laptop's explorer. i have been searching for a solution for past 9 hours and did everything.updating firewall rules,enabling smb in windows ,several network resets,uninstalling many programs and messing with every bit of information about file and printer sharing wont stay on in advance sharing.AND at last your answer saved my day.From bottom of my heart, Thank You.
Saturday, June 16, 2018 12:03 AM
The loss of the browser wouldn't be so hard to take if it had been replaced by something else that performed the equivalent functionality. It's obviously more a marketing decision MS has made. They don't want individuals or small businesses using Workgroups as mini Domains. They would prefer to build in a dependency on cloud based file sharing and device connectivity because that is something that can be tied to a paid service. The potential revenue is the governing factor, not the convenience or functionality.
In the interim, because I didn't want to re-enable SMB v1 on my Win10 PCs, I've updated my Samba server to the latest version that supports SMB v2 + v3 and made it the master browser. Sure, it still isn't visible when doing a browse of the network on the Win10 PCs, but at least it can still be connected to manually using its IP or DNS resolved name (I have a static mapping added in the hosts file). I just have a shortcut on the desktop that I double click to make the connection and see the shared volumes inside.
Tuesday, June 19, 2018 2:07 AM
4.Run “regedit” to open Registry Editor, navigate to “\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services \Browser\Parameters”, ensure the “MaintainServerList” is set to Yes or Auto.
In my registry on Server 2016 and Windows 10 PCs, mine does not say Browser, it says Bowser. Also, there isn't a Parameters key, and no MaintainServerList
I added each. Why does Browser say Bowser. Could this be why nothing is working anymore.
Thursday, June 28, 2018 9:46 AM
Start on windows server service Function Discovery Resource Publication. Put automatic start with delay. On my server this working. I see all my Pc's.
Monday, August 6, 2018 1:27 AM
Function discovery won't help for people trying to use SMB shares on non windows devices - still a master browser issue.
Wednesday, August 15, 2018 7:29 PM
Maybe, I am not an expert. But with this I can see all my PC's in local area. Doesn't matter whitch version of windows using that PC.
Wednesday, August 15, 2018 10:52 PM | 1 vote
To get the computer Browser Service back you have to install or reinstall SMBv1 Client and Server in "Turn Windows Features on or off" However SMB v1 is an insecure protocol so do it at your own risk. The fact that it is insecure is why SMBv1 is removed on clean installs by default now.
You may be able to use Network Discovery to replace the Computer Browser Service. The steps are documented in the following KB.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-nz/help/4034314/smbv1-is-not-installed-by-default-in-windows
You should read the whole KB but here are some relevant snips;
"In Windows 10 Fall Creators Update and Windows Server, version 1709 (RS3) and later versions, the Server Message Block version 1 (SMBv1) network protocol is no longer installed by default. It was superseded by SMBv2 and later protocols starting in 2007. Microsoft publicly deprecated the SMBv1 protocol in 2014"
"The Computer Browser service relies on the SMBv1 protocol to populate the Windows Explorer Network node (also known as "Network Neighborhood"). This legacy protocol is long deprecated, doesn't route, and has limited security. Because the service cannot function without SMBv1, it is removed at the same time.
However, if you still have to use the Explorer Network in home and small business workgroup environments to locate Windows-based computers, you can follow these steps on your Windows-based computers that no longer use SMBv1:
- Start the "Function Discovery Provider Host" and "Function Discovery Resource Publication" services, and then set them to Automatic (Delayed Start).
- When you open Explorer Network, enable network discovery when you are prompted.
All Windows devices within that subnet that have these settings will now appear in Network for browsing. This uses the WS-DISCOVERY protocol. Contact your other vendors and manufacturers if their devices still don't appear in this browse list after the Windows devices appear. It is possible they have this protocol disabled or that they support only SMBv1.
Note We recommend that you map drives and printers instead of enabling this feature, which still requires searching and browsing for their devices. Mapped resources are easier to locate, require less training, and are safer to use. This is especially true if these resources are provided automatically through Group Policy. An administrator can configure printers for location by methods other than the legacy Computer Browser service by using IP addresses, Active Directory Domain Services (AD DS), Bonjour, mDNS, uPnP, and so on.
If you cannot use any of these workarounds, or if the application manufacturer cannot provide supported versions of SMB, you can re-enable SMBv1 manually by following the steps in KB 2696547.
Important We strongly recommend that you do not reinstall SMBv1. This is because this older protocol has known security issues regarding ransomware and other malware."
Friday, March 22, 2019 4:12 PM
...If you cannot use any of these workarounds, or if the application manufacturer cannot provide supported versions of SMB, you can re-enable SMBv1 manually by following the steps in KB 2696547.
Important We strongly recommend that you do not reinstall SMBv1. This is because this older protocol has known security issues regarding ransomware and other malware."
Hooray! Finally, after 3 days beating my head against W10, I turned on SMB1.0 per KB2696547, and I can get on with migrating my Windows XP box to Windows 10 over my home (as secure as it needs to be thank you behind my router's firewall). Amazing how hard it was to find my way here, too 8-). Turned on SMB1.0 server on the W10 box and turned off the automatic removal option for now.
The problem I had was that although WXP could see W10 in the workgroup, I could not see the shares. Now I can. Thanks to everyone who put time into this thread! As for MS pulling the rug out from everyone, well... As someone else said elsewhere: Windows Networking? Ugh.
Saturday, August 3, 2019 7:18 AM
The service “Computer Browser” does not exist on any of my Windows 10 computers, pro or not.